December 18, 2017

Listen to the Episode


From The Official Website:

Today’s episode welcomes back one of our favorite guests — and the show’s only three-time guest, Andrew Seidel, attorney with the Freedom From Religion Foundation.
Together, Andrew, Andrew, and Thomas tackle a bunch of church and state separation issues. First, they break down Andrew Seidel’s recent success in convincing the Senate Judiciary Committee to reject their most unqualified judges, Jeff Mateer and Brett Talley.

Then, the gang does a deep dive into the oral arguments in the Masterpiece Cakeshop hate-bakery case.

After that, Andrew Seidel gives us his take on a new Christian right-wing lobbying group co-founded by Gordon Klingenschmitt.

Finally, we end with the answer to Thomas (and Andrew!) Take The Bar Exam question #54 about witness statements and overlapping privilege.

Show Notes & Links

  1. We broke down the Masterpiece Cakeshop case in Episode 105, and you can follow along with the guys by reading the transcript of the Masterpiece Cakeshop oral argument before the Supreme Court!
  2. If you love Andrew Seidel, you might want to go back to his previous appearances on the show, Episode 82 (on Trinity Lutheran), Episode 85 (which was originally a Patreon-only exclusive), and Episode 111.
  3. And if that’s still not enough Andrew for you, you can catch up on Andrew Seidel’s most recent writings: his op-ed on Masterpiece Cakeshop, which you can read here; his blog post on right-wing legal organizations; and, of course, his FFRF press release celebrating the victory in keeping Mateer and Talley off the federal bench.
  4. Find out all about Go Klings’s latest right-wing “legal” group here.
  5. Finally, consider supporting the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

Law Talkin' Stuff

Law Court Thingies
Magic Law Words
Makin' Up the Laws




  • [00:00:00] Intro
  • [00:02:22] Andrew Was Wrong but Andrew Seidel was right
    • [00:03:40] Alabama Lawyer Brett Talley and Top Aid to Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, Jeff Mateer, have been dropped as judicial nominees
    • [00:08:00] Andrew Seidel tells his secret to talking with people who disagree with you to change their mind
    • [00:12:57] How dangerous just one federal judge can be
    • [00:17:13] Master Piece Cake Shop case arguing free exercise of religion and compelled speech before the Supreme Court
    • [00:19:49] Employment Division v. Smith
    • [00:20:43] FFRF amicus brief to the Supreme Court in the Master Piece Cake Shop case focusing on religious freedom argument
    • [00:25:50] Compelled speech argument: Miami Herald Publishing Company v. Tornillo
    • [00:33:45] Rumsfeld v. The Forum for Academic and Institutional Rights Case
    • [00:34:35] Solomon Amendment 10 U.S.C. 983 (b) (1)
    • [00:38:20] Incidental Speech Doctrine
    • [00:43:28] The Andrews give predictions on the Master Piece Cake Shop Case
    • [00:46:04] Christian Civil Rights Watch
    • [00:52:15] FFRF and Liberty Institute
  • [00:54:53] New Patron Tuesday
  • [00:55:39] Thomas Takes The Bar Exam answer
  • [01:07:56] Outro